Hisoka and Muraki connection

laustic · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 660 Location: Florida

Forgive me if this is in the wrong section but I didn't put it in the shippers thread since its not a Muraki/Hisoka shipper topic.

I've always found the Muraki and Hisoka connection to be fascinating, even more so then the Muraki and Tsuzuki one. I admit that I never held a particular interest in the Muraki and Tsuzuki one because I found it so cliched, the villian lusting after the hero. However with Muraki and Hisoka there's such a deep, unwanted connection between the two. Even after Hisoka's death, he could not escape Muraki's power and I have to wonder why is there such a powerful hold between them. Muraki continuously torments Hisoka with this connection. Muraki, in an incredibly twisted way, is a romantic and while he does try to romance Tsuzuki (again in the typical cliched way with roses), he saves his most "romantic" tactics for Hisoka as a way of torment. The first evidence (in the anime) of this is when Muraki lures Hisoka to him while Marie is singing. After Hisoka faints and begins to fall Muraki catches his hand and pulls him into a "lovers" embrace. Now, while it looks romantic, we as the audience, know that it isn't so. There's a dangerous underlying tone to that embrace. Its interesting in the 4th volume when Muraki picks up Tsuzuki and takes him away, it doesnt' come off as romantic, rather it comes off as being angelic but like Hisoka's embrace there's something forboding about it.

"Our sensual encounter" is how Muraki described his and Hisoka's first meeting in the manga. The fact that he used sensual to describe rape just goes to show how sick he really is. By using that word he seems to be implying that the act was consensual. He beautifies the rape by using words like "haunting," "seduced" and of course "sensual." Muraki never once referred what he did to Hisoka as rape. Its interesting to see that Muraki was surprised to learn that he has a hold over Hisoka, even in death. It always surprises me that he doesn't try to use the connection more often. After all, the best way to get to Tsuzuki is through Hisoka.

The rape scene (anime). Visually, the rape scene is one of the most stunningly beautiful scenes I've ever seen. The haunting song played during that scene only adds to the beauty. It greatly distrubs me because I do count that as one of my favorite scenes. I think its important to point out that this scene is in Muraki's pov. He's the one seeing Hisoka so beautiful and helpless as he was raped and had a curse placed upon him.

Volume 3: Evidence of Muraki's hold over Hisoka is at its strongest in this volume. Muraki calls to Hisoka while he's at the party and Hisoka hears Muraki wanting to continue their sensuous night. What I found interesting is that Muraki doesn't even seem to be aware that he called for Hisoka to come to him. It could very well be that not even Muraki is aware of how powerful his hold really is. That calling may have just been a sign that Muraki was close by but that sign still came through a romantic sense. This is done in so many books like Jane Eyre (Jane hears Mr. R. calling for her in the wind). Its in the poker scene where Muraki knowingly uses his romanticism to torment Hisoka. He once agains romantizes the rape by saying that he dreams of the night when Hisoka was his "cherry blossom," an endearment that one should be hearing from his/her lover. He also refers to Hisoka's eyes as bedroom eyes, a phrase that has sexual connotation. People described with bedroom eyes are usually seen as the seducer. I do see this as Muraki, once again, implying that Hisoka was a willing partner that night.

I'm stopping this right here since I'm tired and can't write any further. I know I should have waited for tomorrow when I'm more awake but I wanted to get some of this down when its in my mind. I hope this isn't confusing but if it is I'll clearifly more later.
I would be pleased to hear others' thoughts on this subject.

Veleda · Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 126 Location: State of Denial

Mm, I really like your thoughts on this.

The poker secene in the manga is one the creepiest Muraki moments for what you mention: the "bedroom eyes" remark. If someone gives you bedroom eyes, they're not just willing, they're initiating. Muraki has gone beyond implying that it was consensual, and is now placing the blame on Hisoka. He's blaming a sheltered child for being raped.

I never noticed the difference between Hisoka's kidnapping in the Nagasaki arc and Tsuzuki's in the Kyoto arc. I'm really intrigued now that you've pointed it out. The romanticism of Hisoka's capture is more obvious in the anime, but even in the manga Muraki holds Hisoka close enough that the two of them are almost kissing. Also in the manga Muraki tells Hisoka that he drew out his death because Muraki makes a special effort for the things he loves. Very peculiar.
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But I'll push myself up through the dirt and shake my petals free. I'm resolved to being born and so resigned to bravery.

laustic · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 660 Location: Florida

You right about the "they're initiating" part with the bedroom eyes. I find it interesting that Muraki never outright says that Hisoka was asking for it. No, he does it by romanticizing the rape and use pretty words to describe it. Honestly, I think doing it that way is worse than actually accusing the person of really wanting it.

You know, Muraki really is my favorite villian. You will never see a villian like him on American tv. Not because no one can do it but because no one has the guts to air a show with someone like him on it. It is disturbing how Muraki plays with Hisoka. The poor boy is only 16 and he has to put up with Muraki's sexual innuendo.

pyro_o · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:19 am Post subject:

but it's kinda embodying the things that some kids go through- there are those who've been raped and exposed so early on in life like Hisoka.

it's so intricate- and it's like their PASTS are so intertwined.

not only their 'sensual encounter', as Muraki so aptly put it...

but also their own family and pasts, I think.

{[ VERY FEW SPOILERS. HAH. ]}

Like how Hisoka 'roundabout'-like killed his own mother. Kasane (?) was killed because of him, etc. etc.

Muraki says that he killed his own mother, too- but there's no mention of that. In the anime, Saki kills her, which makes him go insane... somewhat.

END SPOILERS HERE
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Veleda · Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 126 Location: State of Denial

Well,

Spoilers for past volume 11

Rui actually is Hisoka's mother. Kasane is the mother of his half-sister, who was killed shortly after she was born. The Kurosaki family is majorly fucked up.
_________________
But I'll push myself up through the dirt and shake my petals free. I'm resolved to being born and so resigned to bravery.

pyro_o · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:39 am Post subject:

Was it Rui?? XD'

I can never remember. it's all so very complicated.

yes, it's fucked up. XD
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many thanks to Rhea, because she is the Goddess of Photoshop. 8D

Veleda · Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 126 Location: State of Denial

I just wrote up a long explanation of what I think Muraki feels towards Hisoka in my lj, and I thought I'd respost it here.

Hm, I think he has a lot of different feelings for Hisoka. There's a twisted, warped affection that probably largely comes from Hisoka's being pretty, and the fact that he was entertaining enough the night they first met.

I also think that Muraki finds Hisoka interesting. Here's a doll Muraki thought he had broken, only to find that it's not so broken after all. (I use "it" very intentionally, because I don't think Muraki sees Hisoka as a person. He's definitely an object in Muraki's eyes.)

Now that I've said that, I think Muraki hates Hisoka. He hates Hisoka for simply existing. We see it right from the start in the Nagasaki arc. The look on his face when he and Tsuzuki are in the doll shop, and Tsuzuki whispers Hisoka's name? Scary. And then he derogates Hisoka when the three of them are in the abandoned building right after Tsuzuki rescues Hisoka. "Pesky boy, isn't he? Not only do you distract Tsuzuki-san from me, you interfere with my plan." I always find this scene really creepy. Hisoka hasn't done anything. He's been trapped the whole time. But Muraki just blames him naturally. It's also worth mentioning that in the manga version the King of Swords arc, he threatens revenge on Hisoka for the poker game.

However, in the Kyoto arc, Muraki seems to have returned to his "play with the doll" response to Hisoka.

So, yeah, varied and complex.
_________________
But I'll push myself up through the dirt and shake my petals free. I'm resolved to being born and so resigned to bravery.

pyro_o · Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:23 am Post subject:

omg. I am speechless at your eloquent genius. 8DDD

I like et! Very Happy

But.. I dunno- it's like Hisoka's almost DRAWN to this guy.. Not because he wants to, I'm sure.. but just. He feels like he has to? I dunno- english escapes me atm.

but.. nearly a very very warped version of stockholm syndrome.. >_<
_________________
♥ ☆ ♥ ☆ J ☆ I ☆ H ☆ Y ☆ E ☆ ♥ ☆ ♥

many thanks to Rhea, because she is the Goddess of Photoshop. 8D

laustic · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 660 Location: Florida

Veleda, you really made some good points there. Muraki does see Hisoka, as well as Tsuzuki simply as dolls or objects. He has no respect for either of them. I also think that Muraki feels threatened by Hisoka because he's the object of Tsuzuki's affections and not Muraki. This is definitely a twisted love triangle that's going on.
I do wonder if to a certain degree that Muraki can relate to Hisoka and that may be another reason why he hates him. It is creepy how they have similar pasts.

kyomine · Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 6

so much interesting things! i was all happy to read. i'm agree with laustic, hisoka and muraki connection is fascinating.

a lot of more than muraki/hisoka.

The first thing that surprised me was Muraki did accept to play a game with hisoka when he had already won Tsuzuki in the queen camillia 'sarc.

i wondered how on earth lol how Muraki could accept this deal from his meanless doll. I was stunned. From this i supect there 's really something attracting muraki to Hisoka, and he probably no matter what it is, hates Hisoka for that. Now what it is? I wonder.

Hisoka himself, is so strong, Muraki is his murderer, he raped him, made him suffer horribly, also have the nightmares, and still he is less afraid than Tsuzuki when he confronts Muraki, like just having the gut to ask that poker game against him!wow. Definitely Hisoka is not afraid by him the way he should be. He fears him sure but i can't tell he is so scare either. true Hisoka had been raised in a tough way ... But still, i think It's fantastic the way he controlled this.

Sorry for the mistakes, english is not my native language