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admin Site Admin Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 1008	Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: The Muraki's A thread for discussion on the Muraki family, from speculation on Muraki's grandfather and mother, and possibly even father to the deaths, acts of revenge, motives, connection with Meifu and other theories surrounding the family. _________________ Admin and Editor for Yami Forums ~Coco Melancholy or ~Coco
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Rhea-sama Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 725 Location: Tatsumi's desk O: (Scandalous >3)	Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: I'm actually curious about Muraki's promiscuous father--did he have any OTHER children out of wedlock? _________________
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pyro_o Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: somewhere over the Rainbow....	Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: I've no idea. But I do have the feeling he was a VERY sucessful doctor. God knows why. I think Muraki's inherited his sex drive from his daddy dearest. He certainly gets AROUND a lot. He's got JuOhCho staff come running at his beck and call (admit it) and Oriya and Ukyo. His milkshake brings all his boys (and Ukyo) to the yard, yes it does. And damn straight, it's better. XD (And I totally didn't say that. *wanders away*) _________________ ♥ ☆ ♥ ☆ J ☆ I ☆ H ☆ Y ☆ E ☆ ♥ ☆ ♥ many thanks to Rhea, because she is the Goddess of Photoshop. 8D
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admin Site Admin Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 1008	Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: pyro_o wrote: I've no idea. But I do have the feeling he was a VERY sucessful doctor. God knows why. I think Muraki's inherited his sex drive from his daddy dearest. He certainly gets AROUND a lot. He's got JuOhCho staff come running at his beck and call (admit it) and Oriya and Ukyo. His milkshake brings all his boys (and Ukyo) to the yard, yes it does. And damn straight, it's better. XD (And I totally didn't say that. *wanders away*) Attempts not to laugh out loud in internet cafe. Still trying. What was going on with that family dynamic. He doesn't seem to get on with he's parents. I'm guessing he was taught in a socially strict way, similar to the Kurosaki's, and had no emotional teachings or examples, anything emotional must have been coming from Ukyo and Oriya. So was it like he's dad was always away and he's mum was mentally ill, busy abusing him in someway, I'm going mainly pyschologically, especially with the whole doll thing....but we don't know And why was he so upset about Saki's exsistence, was he upset that he's father betrayed he's mother? Does that mean he did really love he's mother, or was it something else. And he said he TRIED to get along with Saki, and it was fun for Saki. So what relationship did the half brothers have. Why does he hate Saki so much? What was going on with the whole killing he's mother thing? When in the anime it says Saki killed he's parents. I did hear in a fic, the idea that Saki injured he's mother and he finished her off. Who is Saki's mother, I wanna know the lucky other woman. What is the Muraki's link with Meifu. Are there other illegitemate children wondering around?? Why does he hate Saki so much anyway, he apparantly didn't like he's parents, or is that my observation. This family........O.o _________________ Admin and Editor for Yami Forums ~Coco Melancholy or ~Coco
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Veleda Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 126 Location: State of Denial	Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: admin wrote: And why was he so upset about Saki's exsistence, was he upset that he's father betrayed he's mother? Does that mean he did really love he's mother, or was it something else. And he said he TRIED to get along with Saki, and it was fun for Saki. So what relationship did the half brothers have. Why does he hate Saki so much? What was going on with the whole killing he's mother thing? When in the anime it says Saki killed he's parents. I did hear in a fic, the idea that Saki injured he's mother and he finished her off. Who is Saki's mother, I wanna know the lucky other woman. What is the Muraki's link with Meifu. Are there other illegitemate children wondering around?? Why does he hate Saki so much anyway, he apparantly didn't like he's parents, or is that my observation. This family........O.o My theory on the manga quote that Muraki killed his mother, is that he feels responsible for her death. Maybe he feels like he should have been able to stop Saki. And just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean you want them dead. In fact it's likely that he was especially hurt by his mother's death. Children of very emotionally disturbed parents often feel responsible for them, and abuse can create a very strong link, even though it's a terrible one. I think he resented Saki's presence for multiple reasons. First, it made him less special. Only children are often threatened by the arrival of a new child. It's bad enough when there's plenty of warning and/or it's a baby that the first child has time to get used to, but when someone a little older than you just shows up? It would be weird. All of the sudden, Muraki isn't the eldest son any more. He has competition. Second, it was forcible proof that Muraki's home life was dysfunctional and unhealthy. He couldn't pretend anything was normal anymore. His father was bringing in a child from his affair without thinking of anyone's feelings. Third, yeah, I think Muraki felt loyal to his mother, and his father bringing in Saki was an insult to her. Hm, now I have to go reread the Muraki chapters of Forbidden Colors _________________ But I'll push myself up through the dirt and shake my petals free. I'm resolved to being born and so resigned to bravery. Last edited by Veleda on Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pyro_o Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: somewhere over the Rainbow....	Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Veleda wrote: My theory on the manga quote that Muraki killed his mother, is that he feels responsible for her death. Maybe he feels like he should have been able to stop Saki. And just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean you want them dead. In fact it's likely that he was eapecially hurt by his mother's death. Children of very emotionally disturbed parents often feel responsible for them, and abuse can create a very strong link, even though it's a terrible one. I think he resented Saki's presence for multiple reasons. First, it made him less special. Only children are often threatened by the arrival of a new child. It's bad enough when there's plenty of warning and/or it's a baby that the first child has time to get used to, but when someone a little older than you just shows up? It would be weird. All of the sudden, Muraki isn't the eldest son any more. He has competition. Second, it was forcible proof that Muraki's home life was dysfunctional and unhealthy. He couldn't pretend anything was normal anymore. His father was bringing in a child from his affair without thinking of anyone's feelings. Third, yeah, I think Muraki felt loyal to his mother, and his father bringing in Saki was an insult to her. Hm, now I have to go reread the Muraki chapters of Forbidden Colors What she said. *points up* _________________ ♥ ☆ ♥ ☆ J ☆ I ☆ H ☆ Y ☆ E ☆ ♥ ☆ ♥ many thanks to Rhea, because she is the Goddess of Photoshop. 8D
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admin Site Admin Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 1008	Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject: Veleda wrote: admin wrote: And why was he so upset about Saki's exsistence, was he upset that he's father betrayed he's mother? Does that mean he did really love he's mother, or was it something else. And he said he TRIED to get along with Saki, and it was fun for Saki. So what relationship did the half brothers have. Why does he hate Saki so much? What was going on with the whole killing he's mother thing? When in the anime it says Saki killed he's parents. I did hear in a fic, the idea that Saki injured he's mother and he finished her off. Who is Saki's mother, I wanna know the lucky other woman. What is the Muraki's link with Meifu. Are there other illegitemate children wondering around?? Why does he hate Saki so much anyway, he apparantly didn't like he's parents, or is that my observation. This family........O.o My theory on the manga quote that Muraki killed his mother, is that he feels responsible for her death. Maybe he feels like he should have been able to stop Saki. And just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean you want them dead. In fact it's likely that he was especially hurt by his mother's death. Children of very emotionally disturbed parents often feel responsible for them, and abuse can create a very strong link, even though it's a terrible one. I think he resented Saki's presence for multiple reasons. First, it made him less special. Only children are often threatened by the arrival of a new child. It's bad enough when there's plenty of warning and/or it's a baby that the first child has time to get used to, but when someone a little older than you just shows up? It would be weird. All of the sudden, Muraki isn't the eldest son any more. He has competition. Second, it was forcible proof that Muraki's home life was dysfunctional and unhealthy. He couldn't pretend anything was normal anymore. His father was bringing in a child from his affair without thinking of anyone's feelings. Third, yeah, I think Muraki felt loyal to his mother, and his father bringing in Saki was an insult to her. Hm, now I have to go reread the Muraki chapters of Forbidden Colors *thinks of own family and proceeds not to comment* All very true though and a wonderful answer on the debate, on a normal level, (normality never comes into my mind when thinking about this family) I've thought of those many things, (except the feeling responsible for her death bit and forcible proof), my confusion is always the extreme reaction to it all Muraki had, if he was just upset, fair enough anyone else would have felt the same way. But he destroied life rather than saved it, I always wondered if there was something deeper than this the family dynamic to produce such a powerful change and reaction. _________________ Admin and Editor for Yami Forums ~Coco Melancholy or ~Coco
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Veleda Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 126 Location: State of Denial	Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, so just tell me if I don't answer your question. There's nothing that says Muraki had an extreme reaction to Saki when the latter first came. Muraki's rage and insane reactions to Saki all occur in the present, after Saki, you know, killed his family. I'd be pissed too. I wouldn't devise a scheme to kill him over and over again muahaha! but, then again, I'm not Muraki. Or am I missing your point? _________________ But I'll push myself up through the dirt and shake my petals free. I'm resolved to being born and so resigned to bravery.
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pyro_o Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 1171 Location: somewhere over the Rainbow....	Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: I don't remember the point anymore. Somebody enlighten my muddled brain please? _________________ ♥ ☆ ♥ ☆ J ☆ I ☆ H ☆ Y ☆ E ☆ ♥ ☆ ♥ many thanks to Rhea, because she is the Goddess of Photoshop. 8D
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Editor Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 330	Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Veleda wrote: I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, so just tell me if I don't answer your question. There's nothing that says Muraki had an extreme reaction to Saki when the latter first came. Muraki's rage and insane reactions to Saki all occur in the present, after Saki, you know, killed his family. I'd be pissed too. I wouldn't devise a scheme to kill him over and over again muahaha! but, then again, I'm not Muraki. Or am I missing your point? In internet cafe's, point are difficult to make when your in a panic against the clock. Or for someone like myself anyway ^^: I like your arguement, and all your points have pretty much covered anything I was asking. I think the intrigue about Muraki, stems from the question of where is the nature of he's darkness coming from? Is it the cruel single event involving the murder of he's parents, or was there something before that, that could have swayed that particular reaction over any other. Muraki has the ability to bring people back as shown with Maria, he could bring Saki back and kill him as many times as he wanted if he truly desired. But he sacrificed a lot of lives and spread a lot of pain in order to bring Saki back in the transplanting way that he chose. Is the hatred for Saki a focus for all of Muraki's own suffering as well as the death of he's parents, or is it only the death of he's parents that Muraki is condeming the boy for. The reaction is almost blind, showing disregard for the lives of everyone else, (they're dolls), is this aspect of he's reaction linked to he's mother then? On the death of he's mother, I think I get confused on the wording of the book, same with Tatsumi. "It was my fault" and "I killed", give off different impressions. I killed my mother seems to indicate that the person had a hand in the murder of their mother, whereas, it was my fault, suggests taking responsibility for the death and is more ambiguious. Really I am just nitpicking or being superficial, but it's undeniable that that's most likely to be the first impression you get when someone in a story says, I killed "insert name here". It takes a step of thought or consideration before you think, hmmm, maybe not. That's wording for you. Also I'm curious if the pressures of being a doctor truly did help tip Muraki so over the edge. He sounded very sincere in both anime and manga when recounting that part of he's life. I'm also interested on others thoughts about the Muraki's connection with Tsuzuki and the ministry, as well as Muraki's ambiguious feelings towards the man himself. I add more stuff to throw out there but forgotten most of them. That's all for now folks. Thanks Veleda for all your idea's. Sorry for confusing you JiHye ^^; heh heh _________________ Admin and Editor for Yami Forums ~Coco Melancholy or ~Coco
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