Kurosaki Nagare

Veleda · Kurosaki Nagare

Nagare is one of the characters that intrigues me the most. I don't even really know how I feel about him. I think I dislike him, but I'm not really comfortable saying that until I understand him more.

What are your thoughts on Nagare?

admin

I have heard the theory somewhere that Nagare's actions towards Hisoka were out of some kind of love. Which is something I can see, being locked away would probably have been easier then dealing with the issues and emotions in the house, it might have even sent Hisoka insane.

I don't understand why they didn't just give Hisoka away to an nice nuturing family.

I mean I haven't dared look on Theia for more so I don't know anything about Nagare past vol.11 so this is all theory.

~Coco

Whispers of a Ghost

Probably because "OMG OH NOEZ WE NEED A HEIR TO KEEP THE FAMILY COMING!!111onepudding!!1"

Jesus, that family has so many problems, and all of their members drop like flies, that I think they should just let themselves croak.

No sympathy for Nagare from me.

Veleda

I've heard the hypothesis about Nagare doing wat he did for love too. I find it interesting, but I've noticed that most people with this view paint Nagare very sympathetically, and as not hating his son. Ultimately, I think that it's undeniable that Nagare hated Hisoka. Hisoka's an empath. If he says that his family hated him, I'm inclined to believe him.

That isn't to say that Nagare didn't care at all about his son. I just think that hate had to be there also.

admin

Oh gaud Whispers of a ghost that's EXACTLY what I thought when I read that volume, here's a hero and a family sacraficing themselves for a village to lazy and cowardly to lift a finger to save or help themselves, I was probably angry and talking out of emotion to myself at the time but that village is terrible!! They SHOULD just let themselves croak. But I still don't see why giving him up for adoption wouldn't be a better option then the basement, I mean it was Hisoka's empathy that caused them to lock him up not the village, as long as Hisoka's alive the curse continues.

I always felt it WASN'T hate that Nagare had for Hisoka, because he doesn't even really know the kid, the most I think he could feel for him was nothing or indifference. Plus I don't necessarilly think Hisoka is able to immediately identify emotions, feel them yes, identify them-well I always guessed that was HIS own logic applied and not apart of the empathy, especially at that age, what else is he going to think, he probably just resigned to the idea he was cursed and hated and left it at that. I mean he was in the basement most of the time, what did he know about the complications of the house and those that live there in.

My view of Nagare isn't much since we see so little of him. I'm not sure whether I pitied him because I was too disturbed by his debut scene at the end of the book.

~Coco

pyro_o

Nagare-san? Hmm..

Highlight it to see it better. I think I put spoilers in there.. I can't remember. O.o

I think that he's amazingly scary- but in a way, he's very strong. It's where Hisoka gets his stubbornness from- all of his good traits come from a cursed family; how amazing is that? The demon posessed him, but it's like Nagare-san imprisoned his son to SAVE him from the curse itself.. By claiming that Hisoka is a demon child, he condemned his son while saving him at the same time. By letting him die, I think that Nagare thought that dying was a better option than dying with your body inflamed with a demon's blood. Rue-san paid the price of having a baby for two years.. and haunted by the lake demon that took the form of Hisoka's biological mother. O.o

What a strange family. But back to Nagare-san? Overall, I think that everyone's former postings about him acting out on love is true... To my mind, Nagare-san really did act out on love; based on the fact that he thought that being imprisoned in a basement and cut off from human contact was better than being posessed by his family's curse shows that he did care for Hisoka.

Not always Hisoka, but Iwao- I don't know if Nagare thought that Iwao-san wasn't man enough to handle the curse, or if he loved his brother too much; but I prefer to think that he loved Iwao-san too much to hand over the curse...

Veleda

People have made good arguments for Nagare acting out of love, and I now have some stuff to think about.

However, to me, it largely comes down to: pain inflicted in the name of love is still pain. Nagre hurt Hisoka; scarred him more deeply than Muraki could ever dream. Because family is supposed to take care of you, be there for you. Hisoka's family completely failed him, and no amount of good intentions will change that.

Also, it's not as if Nagre only had two choices. It would have been possible to keep Hisoka isolated without completely destroying his pyche. Not to mention that, had he lived, Hisoka would have had to bear the curse anyway. Making the kid miserable wouldn't have changed that.

On a more positive note, I do think that he loves Iwao, and without the same baggage that he (possibly, I'm still sold on this) loves Hisoka. Preventing Iwao from being head of the family is defintely what best for him.

I should also note that while I think Nagare is an interesting and complex character no matter what my feelings for him, Iwao is just a bastard.

admin

@__@ So many spoilers, Yoko hurry up and print the book already and I still out right refuse to visit Theia.net. ANYWAY, after reading the comments my view hasn't changed at all. And Veleda is still right, the road to hell is paved with good intentions you know. Nope, from what I last wrote they haven't changed a smidgen, and Veleda just added to what I think. Though to Veleda I said Nagare may have felt something less strong then hate, I'm still not conclusive on whether he felt love and acted on that.

I can say for sure maybe Nagare had a distant fatherly love for Hisoka that might come naturally to him, I don't think he could aquire the sort of love that comes from trully knowing a person, because I don't think he really knows Hisoka, only the Kurosaki heir that must fit the image they weave. I do feel sorry for the bastard though, *cringes at images of 11*

And yes it is possible to lock someone up without destroying their pysche.

Still-what is wrong with adoption people!!!

pyro_o

Tch, yeah- if you're strong enough to stand the verbal barbs and physical abuse Hisoka's been through, you're my hero. XP

But all contempt for Nagare and Iwao aside, I still stand by my opinion that he's been acting out on love, no matter how messed up and twisted it is. O.o

Maybe it's just me..

I know- Theria.net is a great help to my undying curiosity of the story... even if the artwork is lagging. T____T

Did you even read the post coco-chan??

admin

Hmmm? Why of course I read your post ^__^ why do you ask??

I think Nagare is a fickle subject, I think what he did was understandble, whilst not justifiable. Maybe I'm being judgemental, but perhaps things could have been handled better. I feel sorry for him and can see him acting out of some kind of twisted love, but how well could he have known Hisoka to love him as a person? I've only read up to book 11 so my views probably aren't as strong as others here, still it's an interesting subject that been brought up.

pyro_o

I dunno- maybe we should just wait until the entire 493576536 volumes come out? O.o

Veleda

But what fun would that be? Wink

pyro_o

Hm.. You do have a point there, Veleda-san. -__-

So I'm gathering you read my post too?

Veleda

*blinkblink* I've read all the posts in the topics I'm watching. (Trying to read all the posts in general, but I may have missed some.)

pyro_o

Can I know how many you're watching?

Veleda

Uh, eight, I think.

pyro_o

.........WHOA. O.O

that's a lot.. and you have time to CHECK all of them?? dang~

laustic

Hmm, Nagare seems to be a touchy subject for alot of fans. After I finished reading the translations of the chapters post volume 11 on Theria.net I wrote a fic about Nagare concerning Hisoka because somewhere inside of me I just had to believe Nagare loved Hisoka. Unfortuntaly, I have doubt that he ever gave a damn about his kid. There where times that I began to think that Nagare had some feelings for his son but then he would turn around and say or do something to piss me off. I just don't know, I have to wait for more chapters of the series to come out to really form any concrete feelings for Nagare.

But I do agree that he is an interesting character. Its all his actions that make me so confused.

Veleda

Yeah, that's largely how I feel. He's so full of contradictions. I want to believed he loved Hisoka, but I doubt it.

Would you be willing to link me to your fic?

pyro_o

There are, of course- many parts of Nagare Kurosaki we don't see.

The ongoing manga seems to favor him as a cruel father.. everything we've talked about.. etc.

But in the anime, Nagare-san does have this... ominous tone. True- he isn't given any face time.. but anytime we see Hisoka in pain, I understand that his father had much to do with it! He was the one who 'mistreated' his son the most, I think. Because before a man attaches himself to a lover, religion, or work- he loves his father first and the most. And I think Hisoka would have done the same, if his father had shown his instinctive 'fatherly love' at first.

But instead, with Nagare Kurosaki's blatant hatred for his boy, Hisoka turned on him the same way he felt that his family betrayed him.

You know- 'an eye for an eye' and all that. But he's still some kind of invisible force in the anime- you can see that when Hisoka tells Tsuzuki about what happened to him.. You'd know that it was one of his parents that did that to him when Gushoshin told him about Hisoka's past- and chances are was that it was his father.

In the manga, as I've said in the spoiler post I've written like... in the first page, he shows some kind of weird love and protection for Hisoka. I think that when he found out his son was 'undead', he felt a sort of relief; that the matter was out of his own hands. He can't change the dead- I think that Nagare-san sensed that in some way.

But yeahh... That's all I got for now. XP

kyomine

i don't know for nagare and his behaviors toward his son. May be he did all the abuse in order to make Hisoka 's stronger. If he can suffers hell he did to him them he will be able to be strong enough to fight the malediction...

Or he was really disppointed to have what seems a weak 's child with that empathy he has and really he couldn't bear to see the boy. A boy called with the same name of her sacrified first born child. May be he hated him for that too. Not the child on his first love, with the same name and to top it all a child who is useless for him. Not stronger with that empathy and he thinks about the boy being curse too...

laustic

It's painful for me to read the Kamurakura arc since Nagare appears so cold when it comes to Hisoka. I know that I truly hope that somewhere deep inside that Nagare does care for Hisoka. I guess I find it hard to imagine not loving your own child. It could be as others have said that maybe Nagare is treating Hisoka cruelly so that either he could become stronger or that Nagare doesn't want to bear the pain of loving a child he'll eventually lose.