Archive for Yami Forums A Yami no Matsuei forum where fans of the show can mingle and discuss it.
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admin
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TatsumixTsuzukiI think in a premanga and anime sense I can see the two having something between them but I think their current situations don't warrant much if any chances of a relationship between the pair. I wrote a rant somewhere about TsuzukixTatsumi in relation to TsuzukixHisoka and found it:
I don't think Tatsumi has it in him to define whatever he feels for Tsuzuki, though there's an obvious kind of fixation he has with Tsuzuki, like the whole maturnal-motherly taking care of him thing he has going on, you know-wiping Tsuzuki's face, scolding him, taking him out when he needs cheering up, all that, does exsist, but he can't do it on a daily, in your face, everyday, basis, he just can't, only at a distance,
why??..
..because Tsuzuki causes him too much pain in a close relationship!
The fact that he left Tsuzuki to save his own sanity and the fact that Tsuzuki felt abadoned by him,(Tsuzuki did afterall trust Tatsumi enough to be open with him, even if Tatsumi couldn't handle it)makes me think that Tatsumi feels GUILTY, I mean he is rather attached to Tsuzuki and feels 'something' for him but can't define or face what it is, which proberly causes him even more pain through it's confusion, Tatsumi doesn't like to angst you know. Anyway, those 'feelings' and 'guilt' strengthen Tatsumi's desire for Tsuzuki to be happy, even though they can't take being together.
To put his mind at rest and his guilt at peace he just needs Tsuzuki to be happy, when Hisoka arrived on the scene it was the perfect oppotunity for Tatsumi, he ushers the two together because he knows instantly that they'll complement eachother, and that Hisoka would stay with Tsuzuki longer, possibly forever, something they couldn't do, and that there's a good possiblity that Tsuzuki and Hisoka could find happiness together, unlike him and Tsuzuki who were destructive together and just tore eachother apart. He even admits at one point that he hates Tsuzuki, though I think Tatsumi was just saying that out of emotion. In anycase, having Tsuzuki with Hisoka works best for Tatsumi, he knows that Tsuzuki is content with his new partner who is practically outlasting all the others incuding himself, and that Tsuzuki is just close enough insight to keep an eye on, while being far away enough not to cause him or Tsuzuki any harm or suffering.
Look if anyone wants to argue my point I can happily pull out manga and anime quotes because this isn't my own ideas or stuff people say, or stuff other characters have said or even what my eyes have read or watched, most of that above ramble is stuff TATSUMI has said himself, yes, TATSUMI, he said almost EVERYTHING I've written above, so why on earth people put Tsusoka down and mentally replace it with this couple confuses me. There may have been a chance for this TatTsu couple BEFORE Hisoka, but for lack of better phrasing-'they both screwed it up'.
I Do however, believe that the world is a funny place and theres a chance for ANY relationship if the participants are willing to put the energy in. There are also flings and quick touches. But I can't see any reason why Tsuzuki and Tatsumi would drag themseleves through the pain of the past again when things have moved on and they can find happiness in the future. They have both made it clear where their heart is, even when Tsuzki is being taken out by Tatsumi to cheer him up, his moaning about it, wanting to get back to work and Hisoka, Tsuzuki wants Tatsumi to be around because his one of his friends-yes, but he wants Hisoka as his partner-his willing to live for Hisoka as Kyoto shows-he even calls the near destruction of his OWN Shimigami's imaginary world CRAP, in comparison to the missing Hisoka,-I mean cold-but wraps where he stands pretty nicely.
Tatsumi didn't want to comfort Tsuzuki, he wanted Hisoka to do it, he doesn't wanna have to go back, he doesn't want to end up back to Tsuzuki and his problems again, that doesn't mean to say he doesn't feel for Tsuzuki, just that he doesn't wanna get 'caught up' in feeling for Tsuzuki, as much as we all love Tsuzuki, the world doesn't revolve around him and Tatsumi has his own 'after'life to think about.
To sum up, in fanfiction anything could work, if we're talking about the potential relationships in the canonlized manga and anime, NO Tsuzuki and Tatsumi don't even come close to the two characters at the forefront of the story, Tsuzuki and Tatsumi are the past, Tsuzuki and Hisoka whatever is forthcoming. Though I do think it's a sad but interesting couple nonetheless and have especially found that I rather like it, if in more simmering sense then a solid one.
~Coco
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pervy_princess84
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I just casted my vote, and obviously others did, but did not bother to make any replies. How sad!
Anyway, TatsumixTsuzuki are one of my favorite Yami couples, next to MurakixTsuzuki. What's weird is that at the same time, I'm not much of a shounen-ai-hint fan because I hate the whole lead-on thing.
In vol. 4 of Yami, Tsuzuki once mentioned of a forbiddened love and I always wondered, "with who, dammit?!" Some Yami (or TatxTsu) fans believe that it's Tatsumi, but of course, we'll never know until MATSUSHITA-SENSEI FINISHES WHAT SHE'S STARTED!!!! Sorry. Once I mentioned sensei, I just had to scream it.
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admin
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I like the TatsumixTsuzuki pairing, it's nice to find a fan, so far many people here are Tzusoka fans, and the only rant I can find that I've written about TatsumixTsuzuki is in relation to TsuzukixHisoka which is a bit pitiful, so it's nice to find a fan to bring a freash TatxTsu view to the table. For some reason with the whole forbidden love thing the first person that came to mind for me was Tatsumi, but since then I've thought of a whole load of other people, but Tatsumi was my instant thought for some reason, and I think as well the fact book 5 came conviently after that scene adds to it. But we'll never know. Until as you said Yoko tells us, and she never tell us so. *shrugs*
Ahh! Here we are, a rant about the way in which Tatsumi loves, maybe it can offer idea's about the TatxTsu pairing??:
I agree with Splinteredsky on the point of Tsuzuki and Tatsumi having little coupling potential, though I believe in pre-manga plots the pairing has basis, but I'm not going into that again as I've littered the forums with my opinion on this over and over *sweatdrop*
Anyway I defintely do see a lot of parental dynamic's between the pair though a sexual element could easily be added to this. It's inevitable in away the two would take up those roles in their relationship as Tsuzuki and Tatsumi have personality's that magnify the child/parent aspect of them. I think also Tatsumi's harsh yet selfless way of loving can seem very parental. Which is one thing I love about Tatsumi, he loves and cares very selflessly with little concern to getting anything in return for it.
Of course this can easily tip into his darker self which I believe would do ANYTHING regardless of how dark, to protect those he loved and cared about, ruthlessness, killing, anything necessary, even if it outright contradicted his 'to the book personailty', as is also shown by his malicious and often maniuplative behavoir in book five.
Another negative aspect is his inability to understand the importance of words, Tatsumi's easily misintpretated and misunderstood because of his disctinct lack of expression. I mean Tsuzuki thought Tatsumi outright ABANDONED him, and book five Tsuzuki even thought Tatsumi hated her despite the several actions the man took that proved otherwise. Unfortunately it's because his manner and words so contradict what he does. Actions are good but he scores poor in emotinal and verbal expression as well as learning to recieve as well as give and be more open as oppose to always a background or lurking aid in the shadows.
His obvious power that kicked Muraki's ass thankyou very much, and cold ordered authoritan skills along with that distinct obsession with security can also have dark hints to them as well.
But it's all part of the Tatsumi we know and love, I think we can all agree, his a good character, though yeah probably pretty difficult to write.
-There we go ^__^
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Rhea-sama
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I don't mean to be a basher, but I just don't think it would ever work--as a functioning relashionship I mean. (Maybe in the pre-manga, they gave into temptation one night but still..) Here are my reasons why, as based on observations from the manga.
Tatsumi and Tsuzuki could never have a healthy relashionship with the way they are now, and in many respects they are simply too alike for it to ever work out.
I think once Tatsumi may have felt some sort of (what he though tto be) twisted longing for Tsuzuki, but I think the whole 'you remind me of my mother' would have eventually gotten in the way.
(Seriously, does no one else find that creepy, or do they all just ignore the near Freudian Oedipus Complex of it all?)
And Tatsumi mentions repeatedly that they just ended up hurting each other over and over again, and the guilt was finally too much for him to bear.
At the risk of looking concieted(and belaboring my point), I'm just going to pull a quote from one of my short fan drabbleish things, because it summarizes my opinion so nicely XD
| Quote: | Their relationship had always been a strange one. It was a tangled web of hurt, confusion, need, and psychological disorders up to the wazoo. Tatsumi knew the dozens of reasons why Tsuzuki fascinated him, but that didn't make it any easier or more comfortable to think about. The principle fact was that Tsuzuki reminded Tatsumi so much of his mother it bordered on some sort of Freudian Oedipus complex. However those moments weren't really often, but they were always at the worst times. Just when Tatsumi had wanted something a little bit more, Tsuzuki had the infuriating habit of embodying Seiichiro's mother, which was disturbing enough to act as a bucket of ice water and a slap to the face. It was painful, to want to protect this man, to want this man, and yet be reminded at every crucial juncture that he was a failure and unequipped to do what he sought out to do.
That feeling of deficiency and failure was too painful, too humiliating to bear. And the fact that whenever he thought he dared to try and advance their relationship anyway, his mother's ghost would resurface, quelling any hormones and brought forth a sense of disgust and self-loathing. Those feelings eventually turned from a confused love into exasperated frustration and twisted longing. Eventually it all became a passionate resentment of his former partner. You never knew that the truth was.. I hated you. Yet I needed that...comfort so much...I ended up hurting you...using you. Then let your death be my punishment...for all the pain I caused you. Yes, that would be just. Tsuzuki would be beyond any pain he could ever inflict again. Tsuzuki would be beyond the secretary's cruel selfishness.
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See what I mean? And his thoughts are pretty much pulled straight from the manga. He's willing to let Tsuzuki die in some sort of misguided attempt to protect him, when he is in fact needed by those around him.
Now I'm all for good snogging, and pretty biseinen going at it, but TatsumixTsuzuki put the 'fun' in 'dysfunctional.'
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admin
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You managed to sum up a lot of what I said without dragging it on the way I do ><
I think that Tsuzuki reminding Tatsumi of his mother.
| Quote: | | Yet I needed that...comfort so much...I ended up hurting you...using you. |
Did he really say that bit?? I remember the rest but not that bit. Though it was from the wonky translation of the manga and not theia.net.
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Rhea-sama
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| admin wrote: | You managed to sum up a lot of what I said without dragging it on the way I do ><
I think that Tsuzuki reminding Tatsumi of his mother.
| Quote: | | Yet I needed that...comfort so much...I ended up hurting you...using you. |
Did he really say that bit?? I remember the rest but not that bit. Though it was from the wonky translation of the manga and not theia.net. |
Yup. I think I added 'using' but it was implied really.
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admin
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I'm not sure if Tatsumi was ever using Tsuzuki, I see more fixation and attachment there. As I said, Tsuzuki was as bad or possibly even worse then Tatsumi depending on your view.
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Rhea-sama
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| admin wrote: | | I'm not sure if Tatsumi was ever using Tsuzuki, I see more fixation and attachment there. As I said, Tsuzuki was as bad or possibly even worse then Tatsumi depending on your view. |
Well I meant 'using' as in 'You are a surrogate mother figure/I need you to take the pain that I inflict on you so that I can feel close to my mother.'
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admin
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I saw it more as. I'm attached to you, I'm caught in repetitive behaviour and you reminding me of my mother keeps bringing the "I must take care of you like I did her but not fail this time" side of me out, and Tsuzuki's more like, you make me feel so comfortable I can share everything with you with no consideration for your feelings because I see nothing but darkness past my own.
Though there is some sadism/masochism going on there, but that's simply parts of their personalities.
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Rhea-sama
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I think it's a little bit of both...
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admin
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I think it's mental illness out of control...........
It is cute, in a weird sort of way. Just depressing. Despressingly cute. ^^;
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Rhea-sama
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I just find it unhealthy and in some cases a little bit.. creepy XD
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Veleda
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Sorry for barging in when you two are having a discussion.
I'll read the Tatsumi/Tsuzuki pairing, but I don't really buy it. It's been pointed out that the only thing Tatsumi and Tsuzuki ever really managed to do while they were close (even if only as partners) was hurt each other. It doesn't look like either of them has changed enough that things would be any different if they tried to have a relationship now.
In the end, the thing that most convinces me that Tatsuki isn't really a viable pairing is Tatsumi himself. In the Kyoto arc he makes it very clear that he wants Hisoka to take care of Tsuzuki. He very deliberately distances himself. It seems to me that Tatsumi has made his decision.
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Rhea-sama
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| Veleda wrote: | Sorry for barging in when you two are having a discussion.
I'll read the Tatsumi/Tsuzuki pairing, but I don't really buy it. It's been pointed out that the only thing Tatsumi ever really managed to do while they were close (even if only as partners) was hurt each other. It doesn't look like either of them has changed enough that things would be any different if they tried to have a relationship now.
In the end, the thing that most convinces me that Tatsuki isn't really a viable pairing is Tatsumi himself. In the Kyoto arc he makes it very clear that he wants Hisoka to take care of Tsuzuki. He very deliberately distances himself. It seems to me that Tatsumi has made his decision. |
Please barge in! :"D And you make a very valid point. Tatsumi recognzies how much he(Tsuzuki) and Hisoka need each other.
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admin
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Indeed very true. It is a pairing that makes me very sad, (as I keep saying for some reason). I only hope Yoko has more happy things for Tatsumi and Tsuzuki in the future.
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Paurie
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..future? There's a future?! =O (really??)
I found their relation always a heart ache when they're were serious.. (but hey, I'm a big baby) Other wise... I loved everything else. (such as the fluff moments) That's... pretty much all I have to say. ^^;
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sapphiredragon
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It's really nice to read this. I'm rather fond of TatsumixTsuzki and I feel like I've been enlightened on the depths of their relationship by this thread.
I wrote a fanfic about the two of them back when they were partners and it has a kind of dark overtone all throughout it (at least I think it does) and a sad ending. Although I originally felt really good about it, I later became worried that I hadn't gotten Tatsumi's personality right, so I'll probably post it sometime to get some valuable input from other fans.
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admin
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| sapphiredragon wrote: | It's really nice to read this. I'm rather fond of TatsumixTsuzki and I feel like I've been enlightened on the depths of their relationship by this thread.
I wrote a fanfic about the two of them back when they were partners and it has a kind of dark overtone all throughout it (at least I think it does) and a sad ending. Although I originally felt really good about it, I later became worried that I hadn't gotten Tatsumi's personality right, so I'll probably post it sometime to get some valuable input from other fans. |
That'll be a good idea, post whenever ready I like reading others work. It is a bittersweet couple, but the dynamic's are interesting enough.
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Paurie
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Oh, I would love to read it, Sapph! 
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Jani_chan
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I think they're adorable and I enjoy the pairing because they can be hawt, but they make me sad. The knowledge that one can love someone and have that love can cause that person such pain.
I know it seems stupid, but I'm an idealist who likes the thought of love and happy endings. I know it's not always good to think that way, but it's just the way I am.
darn, I lost my train of thought, sorry ^^;;
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Editor
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| Jani_chan wrote: | I think they're adorable and I enjoy the pairing because they can be hawt, but they make me sad. The knowledge that one can love someone and have that love can cause that person such pain.
I know it seems stupid, but I'm an idealist who likes the thought of love and happy endings. I know it's not always good to think that way, but it's just the way I am.
darn, I lost my train of thought, sorry ^^;; |
I think the pairing is interesting in exploring the minds of the characters at least. There's so much there that is probably very revealing about them, the fact that they caused eachother so much pain at least tells us that they forced each other to look at things inside themselves they didn't want to fast. If you like bittersweet, twisty, tragic and strangely comical than this would be the pairing for you.
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