| Archive for Yami Forums A Yami no Matsuei forum where fans of the show can mingle and discuss it. |
| admin |
The Muraki'sA thread for discussion on the Muraki family, from speculation on Muraki's grandfather and mother, and possibly even father to the deaths, acts of revenge, motives, connection with Meifu and other theories surrounding the family. |
||||
| Rhea-sama |
I'm actually curious about Muraki's promiscuous father--did he have any OTHER children out of wedlock? | ||||
| pyro_o |
I've no idea. But I do have the feeling he was a VERY sucessful doctor. God knows why.
I think Muraki's inherited his sex drive from his daddy dearest. He certainly gets AROUND a lot. He's got JuOhCho staff come running at his beck and call (admit it) and Oriya and Ukyo. His milkshake brings all his boys (and Ukyo) to the yard, yes it does. And damn straight, it's better. XD (And I totally didn't say that. *wanders away*) |
||||
| admin |
Attempts not to laugh out loud in internet cafe. Still trying. What was going on with that family dynamic. He doesn't seem to get on with he's parents. I'm guessing he was taught in a socially strict way, similar to the Kurosaki's, and had no emotional teachings or examples, anything emotional must have been coming from Ukyo and Oriya. So was it like he's dad was always away and he's mum was mentally ill, busy abusing him in someway, I'm going mainly pyschologically, especially with the whole doll thing....but we don't know And why was he so upset about Saki's exsistence, was he upset that he's father betrayed he's mother? Does that mean he did really love he's mother, or was it something else. And he said he TRIED to get along with Saki, and it was fun for Saki. So what relationship did the half brothers have. Why does he hate Saki so much? What was going on with the whole killing he's mother thing? When in the anime it says Saki killed he's parents. I did hear in a fic, the idea that Saki injured he's mother and he finished her off. Who is Saki's mother, I wanna know the lucky other woman. What is the Muraki's link with Meifu. Are there other illegitemate children wondering around?? Why does he hate Saki so much anyway, he apparantly didn't like he's parents, or is that my observation. This family........O.o |
||||
| Veleda |
My theory on the manga quote that Muraki killed his mother, is that he feels responsible for her death. Maybe he feels like he should have been able to stop Saki. And just because you don't like your parents doesn't mean you want them dead. In fact it's likely that he was especially hurt by his mother's death. Children of very emotionally disturbed parents often feel responsible for them, and abuse can create a very strong link, even though it's a terrible one. I think he resented Saki's presence for multiple reasons. First, it made him less special. Only children are often threatened by the arrival of a new child. It's bad enough when there's plenty of warning and/or it's a baby that the first child has time to get used to, but when someone a little older than you just shows up? It would be weird. All of the sudden, Muraki isn't the eldest son any more. He has competition. Second, it was forcible proof that Muraki's home life was dysfunctional and unhealthy. He couldn't pretend anything was normal anymore. His father was bringing in a child from his affair without thinking of anyone's feelings. Third, yeah, I think Muraki felt loyal to his mother, and his father bringing in Saki was an insult to her. Hm, now I have to go reread the Muraki chapters of Forbidden Colors |
||||
| pyro_o |
What she said. *points up* |
||||
| admin |
*thinks of own family and proceeds not to comment* All very true though and a wonderful answer on the debate, on a normal level, (normality never comes into my mind when thinking about this family) I've thought of those many things, (except the feeling responsible for her death bit and forcible proof), my confusion is always the extreme reaction to it all Muraki had, if he was just upset, fair enough anyone else would have felt the same way. But he destroied life rather than saved it, I always wondered if there was something deeper than this the family dynamic to produce such a powerful change and reaction. |
||||
| Veleda |
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, so just tell me if I don't answer your question.
There's nothing that says Muraki had an extreme reaction to Saki when the latter first came. Muraki's rage and insane reactions to Saki all occur in the present, after Saki, you know, killed his family. I'd be pissed too. I wouldn't devise a scheme to kill him over and over again muahaha! but, then again, I'm not Muraki. Or am I missing your point? |
||||
| pyro_o |
I don't remember the point anymore. Somebody enlighten my muddled brain please? | ||||
| Editor |
In internet cafe's, point are difficult to make when your in a panic against the clock. Or for someone like myself anyway ^^: I like your arguement, and all your points have pretty much covered anything I was asking. I think the intrigue about Muraki, stems from the question of where is the nature of he's darkness coming from? Is it the cruel single event involving the murder of he's parents, or was there something before that, that could have swayed that particular reaction over any other. Muraki has the ability to bring people back as shown with Maria, he could bring Saki back and kill him as many times as he wanted if he truly desired. But he sacrificed a lot of lives and spread a lot of pain in order to bring Saki back in the transplanting way that he chose. Is the hatred for Saki a focus for all of Muraki's own suffering as well as the death of he's parents, or is it only the death of he's parents that Muraki is condeming the boy for. The reaction is almost blind, showing disregard for the lives of everyone else, (they're dolls), is this aspect of he's reaction linked to he's mother then? On the death of he's mother, I think I get confused on the wording of the book, same with Tatsumi. "It was my fault" and "I killed", give off different impressions. I killed my mother seems to indicate that the person had a hand in the murder of their mother, whereas, it was my fault, suggests taking responsibility for the death and is more ambiguious. Really I am just nitpicking or being superficial, but it's undeniable that that's most likely to be the first impression you get when someone in a story says, I killed "insert name here". It takes a step of thought or consideration before you think, hmmm, maybe not. That's wording for you. Also I'm curious if the pressures of being a doctor truly did help tip Muraki so over the edge. He sounded very sincere in both anime and manga when recounting that part of he's life. I'm also interested on others thoughts about the Muraki's connection with Tsuzuki and the ministry, as well as Muraki's ambiguious feelings towards the man himself. I add more stuff to throw out there but forgotten most of them. That's all for now folks. Thanks Veleda for all your idea's. Sorry for confusing you JiHye ^^; heh heh |
||||
| pyro_o |
apology accepted. BUT.
considering the nitpicky wording, I don't think that it might been worded that way on circumstance- especially when Muraki says such things. the man always has a motive behind everything, and his words certainly count as a part of it. |
||||
| Veleda |
But remember that he had Maria's entire body, and she was freshly dead. I doubt he had the kind of powers he does now when he was a teenager. (Perhaps Saki was the catalyst that drove him to learn magic?) It's possible that Saki's head was all he could save, and now he's unable to bring him back to life through conventional ("conventional," heh) means. As for, "I killed" versus "It was my fault." I wonder about the translation into English from Japanese. I'll check my scanlations to compare them with my Viz release. But more to the point, "I killed her" takes all the blame, while "It was my fault" places some of the responsibility elsewhere. We know how Tatsumi tends to take responsibility. And, as for Muraki, he has a grandiose sense of self-importance. It makes sense to me that Muraki would take all the blame, even if it's for something he feels guilt(?) over. Moving on to your ponderings about Muraki's role as a doctor, I agree that he appears to takes it seriously. Of course, he doesn't stick too strongly to the Hippocratic oath, given how he screwed with Tsubaki-hime, who was his patient. As for Muraki and Tsuzuki... hoo boy. I'm not sure I can get my thoughts in order for that one. I'll either have to wait until I can organize my thoughts, or wait for someone else to post their ideas, which I can bounce off of. |
||||
| admin |
Actually somethings been bothering me. Veleda, you mention that the reason why Muraki didn't use the same methods to revive Saki as he did Maria could be because he only had Saki's head.
Why?? How comes he only has Saki's head. What ever DID happen to the rest of the body?? |
||||
| laustic |
I wondered about that too. And exactly how is it he managed to keep Saki's body, err head, preserved all those years. | ||||
| pyro_o |
didn't the French have some kind of fluid to keep their king's bodies/organs preserved? I dunno about Egyptian mummification (even though I doubt that Muraki would mummify his brother XD), but that kind of preservation fluid isn't quite the newest technique.
mebbe it got blown up? (Saki's body) *waddles away* |
||||
| admin |
I always got the strangest notion that he went completely ballistic and just tore the body apart, only to later realise that he kinda needed it to bring he's brother back again for he's plans. | ||||
| pyro_o |
huh. reminds me of the Kinadaichi series, for some reason. XD | ||||
| laustic |
I wonder exactly what was it that made Muraki want to kill Saki with his own hands. He mentioned that Saki hurt the one he loved (well, something like that) and I assumed that he meant Ukyo. I wonder if we'll ever find out. YnM has so much mystery to it. | ||||
| admin |
I'm not sure if I'm wrong, but Veleda seems to evoke the point that the murder of Muraki's parents may be enough reason to suffice. One of my main points is what was Muraki's mental health prior to that point, for him to break so disatrously and so murderously. And still, why has he only got Saki's head??
I assumed it was Ukyo too. And at the end of Kyoto he mentions not being able to help her doesn't he? |
||||
| pyro_o |
I always did imagine Muraki in a Hisoka corner. (I shall explain when my mother is not giving me le evil eye for compy) | ||||
| laustic |
In the anime, Muraki was angry that Saki killed his parents but it wasn't so in the manga. Muraki never outright say what Saki did, only that he hurt the person who meant the most to Muraki. I think the people who made the tv series didn't want to add Ukyo in because it would have made things difficult and complicated. Besides that, I don't think they wanted her to interfere with the Muraki and Tsuzuki's "relationship." I do wish that she was kept in the series. She has an important role in Muraki's life (even though I know many fans would deny that) and I think Ukyo, as well as Oriya are the only people Muraki truly cares about. They are the only ones he won't betray and leave behind as broken dolls. Once he's done using Tsuzuki to fulfill his revenege and perhaps lust, he will discard him like a broken doll as he had done with Hisoka. Tsuzuki and Hisoka are nothing but toys to him while Ukyo and Oriya are actually seen as human beings and Muraki actually feels regret and remorse when it comes to them. | ||||
| pyro_o |
sometimes.. I wonder if Muraki wanted to kill his mother. like.. if he was angry at Saki for beating him to it. from what I've seen, it doesn't seem as if his mother LOVED him. Doted, perhaps, but not loved. >< | ||||
| laustic |
I would have liked to see more about Muraki's mother. From what I've seen the woman had some serious issues. | ||||
| pyro_o |
yeah. Dolls. *shudders*
well, I think we know where his.. fixation of stillborn children came from. ><;; |
||||
| laustic |
Muraki didn't seem to like his mother that much so I have to wonder why he kept the doll collection that she had? He seems to have as much of a fixation with them as she did. He loves collectiong them and he loves treating people like they're dolls themselves (Tsuzuki and Hisoka being prime examples of this). | ||||
| pyro_o |
"Poppet". ><;;
he's eloquent. he's rather good looking. so what's he doing, messing around with his mother's dolls? sth makes me think of dolls, all right- perhaps a theme in the story, as much as magic and odd stories of dead souls wandering Japan. Perhaps the dolls are sth influenced by his mother? Abusive parents usually were abused by their parents before. You did say that Muraki's mother did not seem to care, so perhaps he learned that from his mother. He learned how to play with strings, play with people like they were dolls, hmm? |
||||
| Rhea-sama |
I have a fic in the works now actually, well... on the backburner at least. It sort of is exploring Muraki's parents and... how much his family puts the fun in dysfunctional.
The basic premise: Muraki Sr. and the Missus have a child (thier first), a stillborn. Fact: About 50% of marriages end in divorce after the loss of a child or infant. (Some sources estimate 40%-70%) However, seeing as the Muraki clan seems very, very traditional (i.e. three or four generations of doctors) divorce was probably not an option. (Though it was not very socially acceptable at that time anyways--at least in the US, so I assume it was probably fairly similar in Japan. If not more conservative.) Disaster strikes the house. Screams are thrown back and forth, blame is placed, accusations made. (i.e "You slut! Who is the real father!? No seed of mine would--" "You're a doctor! You should have known! You could have saved my baby--!") Thus starts his father's filandering ways, and his mom's ... unhealthy fixation with porcelain dolls. Their marriage, as a functioning, healthy, if institutional, relashionship is dead. Still, as a duty to the household they try to produce an heir/son--with little success until Kazutaka. That's all I have so far, but in thinking it out, some other things become more clear to me. Muraki is so pale and anemic looking because he was born weak, but his vampire-like power to absorb the energy of others allowed him to become a... physically normal boy. Mostly. ((Hm, maybe he sucked some of his mom's energy whilst in the womb? Through the umbillical cord? Interesting directions there... And I'm sure his childbirth would have weakened her... Making him feel responsible for killing her. Woot!)) Aaaaaand we've already sort of seen glimpses of mum and her... vast... vast collection and exposing young Muraki to them. |
||||
| laustic |
That sounds like an interesting fic. I guess we can agree on that Muraki was deeply influenced by his mother. I hope that one day we'll get some of the questions answered. | ||||
| pyro_o |
I dunno- I think that his "powers" would not have come alone. In my thoughts, he is not human. Humane, really. Nobody can have the emptiness like THAT to control what he can. Beasts, people, his own body, other people's MINDS that he likes to screw with.
Perhaps it's not so much of the body as it is the mind. Empty, but filled with knowledge- knowledge that he uses to generate hate, abuse, because it's the only thing he's ever known, too. |
||||
| laustic |
Wow, pyro_o, that a pretty good point. I have to say that I agree with you. Muraki isn't human, at least not entirely. And I think he has soicalpathetic tendacies. He doesn't care that he's hurting people. If killing will help achieve his goal, then by golly, he'll do it. | ||||
| pyro_o |
but of course- he's probably been taught that. like .. it's like when person A and person B are meeting at a crossroads, and A goes "You're in my way," even if A bumped into B.
kinda. XD; I don't think he's a sociopath. Or rather, I think he has nearly a split personality. It recalls me back to my YYH fangirl days, when the bad guy split his soul to recieve magica training more quickly. Huh. But Ukyo confuses me. He is so careless, so careful, and he's so cold and brutal, but he has Ukyo. Perhaps she is a figment of his imagination? Even if he is not HUMANE, he can still be human. I can imagine that he's been lonely for a very, very long time, now. |
||||
| laustic |
Oriya knows Ukyo, so I don't think she's a figment of Muraki's imagination. I do think that she's the love of Muraki's life. I think at one point he was capable of caring for others, but somehow he became so sick and twisted. When Ukyo is mentioned he actually seems human. Remember when Muraki invited Tsuzuki to the Noh performance (also remember that he only invited Tsuzuki after Ukyo turned him down) and when he mentioned Ukyo, he then suddenly goes into his own dream world, thinking about Ukyo? And when Muraki believed he was dying, who did he think of? Not Tsuzuki, but Ukyo. I know that there are fans who rather pretend that she doesn't exist but I think she's important because she symbolizes Muraki's lost humanity. Don't get me wrong, I think that Muraki always had some evil in him, but I think there was a part of him that genuinely wanted to help people. | ||||
| pyro_o |
But how would we know that he knows her for sure? There isn't any visual reference- and sometimes, a flashback, but not here. Not for Ukyo. Oo;
People talk to inanimate objects, and Oriya isn't normal. He has 'power', beyond what we thought, I think. But Ukyo might not be real, even. She could be Muraki's pet geranium? (XD) But all kidding aside, I don't think she exsists... Those tickets could might as well have well been rejected by a voice in his head, and he'd easily believe enough. ..perhaps Ukyo was his mother's name? A manifestation of her? I wouldn't know. I do think he has good, somewhat. Or rather, had some good in him- but he didn't know what to do with it. Considering how he'd been raised by his mother mostly (as far as we can see), I can imagine that Muraki would've been taught that kindness didn't serve you too well. "No good deed goes unpunished", I think, and her marrying Muraki's father certainly didn't make her too much of a happy wife..? |
||||
| laustic |
But Ukyou is in the side story with Oriya. I don't think Oriya would be able to see her if she was a figment of Muraki's imagination. | ||||
| pyro_o |
Like I said, I did mention sth about Oriya being able to see ... things.
I'm pretty sure that you can't see shinigami for what they are, unless they TELL you. And I have no memory of shinigami themselves telling Oriya what they were. Shinigami don't EXSIST in this world, but their own- and Muraki isn't the first person to create something from his mind. I think that's my proof for the side story. XD; |
||||
| laustic |
Didn't Muraki tell Oriya about them? | ||||
| pyro_o |
yeah. but Muraki's not a shinigami, tho. So even if he did tell him, I don't think Oriya would KNOW.
You can kinda tell- his face, sorta. He just.. knows that they are shinigami- and somehow, he KNOWS the level of their power. He didn't choose Tsuzuki nor Watari.. And I know that Hisoka has martial arts experience... but perhaps Oriya 'sensed' that Hisoka was weaker? I'm pretty sure that Tsuzuki would probably take it the entirely wrong way, if Oriya tried to talk some sense into him; Watari would probably brush it off, treat it as a battle of wits, and call it a day.. But Hisoka. I don't recall Hisoka telling Oriya anything about 'home' until he said so near the end of the fight. But.. somehow, Oriya and Hisoka's thoughts are synched- different people, but rather similar.. wavelenghts. So I'm pretty sure that Oriya could've been the kind of person to sense that Ukyo was 'real', in Muraki's mind. Oo; |
||||
| Rhea-sama |
Well she's real enough that the house-servants at Oriya's place see her as well. | ||||
| pyro_o |
..dangit. Oriya's 'sight' is contaigous? XD | ||||
| Rhea-sama |
XDD Sorry JiHye I think (unfortunately....??) Ukyou is real, though it really would make for a facinating piece of writing if she were imaginary O: | ||||
| pyro_o |
what are you sorry for? XDDDD
it's just my imagination, eh. *shrugs* but it would be kinda creepy, tho. Perhaps I'm just in denial about Muraki having a love of his life, and being human in some aspect like that. XD |
||||
| admin |
What to say of Muraki?
Where to start: Muraki was clearly a psychopath with grandiose and manic thinking, but his erratic behaviour made it impossible for them to predict his next move. With each encounter he claimed to have a different purpose--eternal life, organ trafficking, the resurrection of his hated half brother--yet the resulting death and chaos remained the same. This quote from the blossoms and blood fanfic defintely reflects my thoughts on Muraki. I feel there is some connection between Muraki and Tsuzuki and that Muraki may not be entirely human because of book 8: "We're abominations, the products of genetic experiments that violated the laws of nature. We who are born in the darkness must walk in it. There is no escape.....not for you....and not for me.....because we were never meant to exsist, we're the sons of men who wear the black mark upn their foreheads. We are descenents of darkness" He also mentions Tsuzuki and himself as being born from the belly of the same woman. I think there is defintely something in this descendents of darkness thing. As for Muraki as a person. I do honestly think he was just a man with a pretty detached and unemotional childhood who did want to help people at some point or another. Thats the man if Tsubaki didn't know than at least sensed. I think somewhere along the line with Saki escalating the mental trauma Muraki had already suffered, Muraki simply gave in to the evil inside him. I think Muraki like Tsuzuki was born with a great and vast potential to do evil and be destructive, but where as Tsuzuki had a childhood that consisted of love and affection from Ruka, therefore abhorring the darkness inside of him and internalising he's pain. Muraki was never taught things like family love and real respect for human life, so he in effect externalizes he's pain submitting to the darkness inside of him. They both walk a razor thin line between insanity and sanity because of their power, because they could be more than just human, because of many things out of their control. However circumstances have dictated very different paths for them. And the people they are, are now the results. (WTF am I talking about =?) |
||||
| Veleda |
I don't think Muraki is a sociopath. He has his friendship with Oriya and his love for Ukyou, and a full blown sociopath simply cannot form those type of bonds. I do think that he has anti-social personality disorder.
According to Psychology: Themes and Variations (Sixth Edition) by Wayne Weiten, "The antisocial personality disorder is marked by impulsive, callous, manipulative, aggressive, and irresponsible behavior that reflects a failure to accept social norms. Since they haven't accepted the social norms they violate, people with antisocial personality disorder rarely feel guilty about their transgressions. Essentially, they lack an adequate conscience." According to my psych teacher a little while back, a person can have anti-social personality disorder without being a full blown sociopath. |
||||
| sapphiredragon |
seeing things like this makes me somewhat that I'm taking AP psych next year, even if I have heard that the teacher for it is awful at my school |
||||
| admin |
I chickened out of Pyschology.....to scared of the theorists and theories I'd have to learn.
*goes off to learn proper definition of socio-path* |
||||
| Rhea-sama |
Hmm..A sociopath/anti-social person is someone who simply has no conscience. That doesn't necessarily mean they actively always become serial killers, nor does it mean that they don't form 'friendships' of a sort--which they can later exploit if they so choose. (In Muraki's case, perhaps it's "I don't kill Oriya because he's useful to me <strike>and he's a really good shag.</strike> ((<---We really need HTML/the crossout function enabled. XDD))I don't think they're necessarilly driven to compulsively do bad things--they just don't feel bad about it when they do. They're just sort of amoral--or perhaps 'nonmoral' would be a better phrase. Now I need to go look up what the DSM-IV says about it. |
||||
| laustic |
Coco, I think you made a really good point about Muraki (and Tsuzuki). | ||||
| kingofswords |
I am gutted I have come so late into this thread - but i will post here anyway XD
I always assumed Muraki only had Saki's head (and spinal column if you go by the manga) because it was the only part(s) he could save with the limited technology his 15(ish) year old self had available to him. Also - Muraki and Tsuzuki are definitely linked because of Yukitaka (Muraki Kazutaka's grandfather) being the doctor who treated (and perhaps experimented on) Tsuzuki when he was still alive. Also... it worries me how in book 8 (i think its 8...) EnMa says something about them being lucky to have got rid of the grandfather, but they might have to start worrying about the new Muraki (our muraki  ) I find this point VERY interesting, as it may mean that EnMa and others deemed Yukitaka too involved with Tsuzuki - like he knew too much...
Which begs many questions about Tsuzuki! But as we know, he has non human eyes and non human dna... I also wonder about how Muraki lost his eye. Demon contract anyone? Why would the mangaka have a villain with one missing eye, not explain how it happened, and then have an arc about a demon contract being forged in mortal eyes? I believe Muraki made a demon contract (perhaps to keep parts of Saki viable or even just for power??) and then gouged out his own eye to eliminate the contract so the issue of payment would not arise. As for Ukyou... there are also many theories that she herself is not human - or that she is under some kind of curse... Exactly what Muraki has to gain from being with her I do not know - but there are even some thoughts that she is the source of his powers! Perhaps she is a Miko (right word??) Like Wakaba is and is Muraki's link to summoning demons and things like that? ok... I'm done now XDDDD |
||||
| pyro_o |
if we're going by that theory, mayhap Ukyo is that demon he made said contract with? | ||||
| kingofswords |
perhaps she is - but I don't think so.
Actually - I think she is human (ish). Muraki's "I'm sorry Ukyou, forgive me" speech as he is 'dying' makes me think he was trying to make her well or break a curse on her - or something along those lines... the question is why!? But I do definitely believe my eye theory ... I will be gutted if it turns out to not be true! XD |
||||
| admin |
Too late for coherant speech but that makes a lot of sense, I will have to have a break to consider them. | ||||
| Editor |
That was one of things that struck me most in that story, and how Konoe knows too, same as in the devils trill, Konoe knows something dammit. Urgh!
Awwwww, I don't remember what crap I wrote but awww, thank you laustic. |
||||
| laustic |
Konoe seemed very affected by what was happening to Tsuzuki in the Devil's Trill. I wonder if somehow he was involved with Tsuzuki's life or if he developed a deep attachment to him since Tsuzuki came to the Ministry. | ||||
| Editor |
Its always said specifically that those two have been working the longest in the bureau, maybe Konoe picked Tsuzuki up or something, or maybe Tsuzuki was apart of he's case. |
||||
| pyro_o |
that's true- relationships between boss and employee always tend to be a bit strange when they've known each other for a long, long time. examples can be taken from House (if you watch it), with Cuddy and House's relationship. Working for the Bureau for seventy+ years is probably going to allow your boss to become very attatched to you. 8D; | ||||
| Editor |
Well attached enough to assign Hisoka purposely as Tsuzuki's partner. Is Konoe sneaky or what? |
||||
| Chazmy |
In my opinion I believe that Konoe was the one that had brought Tsuzuki through the door to meifu. Konoe had to have done field work back in the day and maybe he was assigned to take Tsuzuki in, it seems logical. | ||||
| pyro_o |
well, then, let's factor in Enma here. :O he probably had something to do with Tsuzuki being assigned to the Judgement Bureau, instead of doing work like Kira. | ||||
| Chazmy |
Being that Tsuzuki has abnormal DNA and is probably more or likely not all human ,which I'm sure Lord Enma knew about. Why would the Lord pass up the chance to have something like that work for him. Tsuzuki was a prime target for Lord Enma to get his hands on and no doubt Konoe was the one to retrieve him. | ||||
| Editor |
I have a feeling there could be safety reasons involved, like having Tsuzuki work for the Bureau was the better of evils or the safer. Maybe Enma was also involved in Konoe's case since Konoe and Enma talk about Muraki's grandfather who "took care?" of Tsuzuki up until the time of he's death, and they're not talking about him in a good way either, maybe he stirred up some trouble on the case that involved Tsuzuki to the point that even Enma had to get involved. You never know. And Enma seems more wary of Tsuzuki's powers and angry at the man, then thankful to have him work for him. | ||||
| Chazmy |
I actually came up with a theory about Lord Enma and his relationship to Tsuzuki
{ I know I should put this on the Lord Enma forum, but you made a really good point about Lord Enma being wary of Tsuzuki] I came up with this theory a while back and it does sound a little far fetched., but again my brian wonders too often and this is what I came up with. I called it: The Property of Lord Enma A conspiracy theory: Tsuzuki is by far a very important person to Lord Enma. whether it be his power, inhuman DNA or even a love interest. Why doesn't Lord Enma want Tsuzuki to die? and what with that strange commit of Tsuzuki's body? Quotes from Yami No Matsuei Manga Book 2 [ The devils trill } : of Yami No Matsuei: Lord Enma does state that he ' can't very well lose Tsuzuki.' Book 8 { Kyoto Arc} Though it does still question the fact that Enma being very angry at Tsuzuki taking up the discission to kill himself. Lord Enma said that Tsuzuki will never leave. That he belongs in hell. But also mention of not bearing the thought of Tsuzuki's beautiful body being disfigured. Theories 1: { Power} Perhaps it is as a lot of readers say. That Tsuzuki contains a very great deal of power he does not even know that exsits in him { he is not even human. Then what is he? }.Lord Enma does not want to lose that power.To obtain 12 shikigami's has never been done by a shinigami before. { Leaving more question to fry our brains} Is Tsuzuki even questioned to be more powerful then Lord Enma himself. Could Tsuzuki be a god? is it possible? 2: { Justice} Or maybe it is because of Tsuzuki's crimes that he is being punished and became a shinigami { that would still leave the question. Was that why the others became shinigami's? { Tatsumi did say he killed his mother] but what about Hisoka? what is he being punish for to become a shinigami? And would Muraki be punished to and become a shinigami? 3: {Desire } Saying if it was a desired love interest that Lord Enma has for Tsuzuki. I would conclude the following theory: I do not doubt that Lord Enma does have a certain thing for Tsuzuki. Perhaps he is forcing Tsuzuki to stay because even as he wants him, he know's he can't. Lord Enma's anger in not being able to have Tsuzuki { intamitly } permits a frustrated desire. A ' You can look but can not touch' { lord Enma knows the rule to not have relations with his employees so Tsuzuki becomes a eye candy to him. ' I can't bear the thought of that beautiful body being disfigured.' Not wanting Tsuzuki to die because then he would not be able to see that beauty no longer that has intrigued his desire. Interest and his own selfish want to keep Tsuzuki in hell were he belongs. { now this is just going on a deep end of theories in wondering why Lord Enma had confused use into beleiving that he has a desired interest but a angry retort towards Tsuzuki alone. simply as I would put what Lord Enma would say ' I can not have the object of my desire, but rest assure Tsuzuki, you belong to me.' 4: Maybe all these theories play into effect. Perhaps each of these theories mentioned has a great deal on Lord Enma's intentions. Power, justice, desire or none at all. His intention could be completely different. Something we would have to question by only reading between the lines. But I do know one thing is for sure and these words could not be no more true on what Tsuzuki is to Lord Enma. ' You belong to me, Tsuzuki. I own you. |
||||
| Editor |
I like how you neatly drew the theories into part to read and mull over. Not having much of a head for last nights bailey's I'll try my best to at least create one clear sentence.
I defintely think Tsuzuki just gains desire where ever he goes, though usually each person I think uses him as some sort board to project their wants upon. Though their all interpretable Tsuzuki's "love interests?" range from Hisoka, to Hijiri, to the count, to Tatsumi, to Suzaku, to Hisae, to Muraki and probably a whole lot more. So with all that "you belong to me" and "beautiful body" innuendo I'm wouldn't be surprised if Enma harboured an interest in Tsuzuki that went a little beyond simply, "employee", but it may not be just desire. We know Tsuzuki's body is physically attractive but it could be beautiful for a number of reasons. And Muraki as well as he's grandfather are all very well accustomed with some of those reasons, and no doubt Enma who may find Tsuzuki both a danger and a creature he desires to damn, (not thinks deserving of damnation just because you never know with Tsuzuki and I wouldn't put it past Enma to have Tsuzuki think that to keep him in he's possession), may very well be aware of these reasons also. I defintely agree that Enma is possessive of Tsuzuki, but why, the reason is strong enough to have the man want to keep Tsuzuki despite the danger he poses. But then again he does say, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer", but again, why would you want to keep an enemy close when they're happily willing to obliterate themselves for you. Is there more than punishment at hand here. Could there possibly be revenge? |
||||
| Chazmy |
Something tells my Lord Enma fears Tsuzuki. not fear as in I'm afraid but in Tsuzuki is not fully human and lord enma no doubt knows this. i think Lord Enma does not want Tsuzuki to reveal that part in him.
I also think Muraki knows this part of Tsuzuki and that is why when Chief konoe was talking to Lord Enma in I think it was volume 7 quote from book: The grandson of Yukitaka Muraki, the doctor who treated Tsuzuki while he was alive.....is deeply involved in this case. Damn. the doctors of that family are a plague to us. i thought the secret would be safe if we got rid of the doctor, but....but this time, it appears he means to challenge us as never before. We've had many run-ins with him before. What a nuisance.. let's watch awhile longer and see how far the grandson will take things. No mere human should be able to thwart our plans. * scratches head in confusion* This makes me wonder, really? sorry to tied to go any further on my theory, will continue. |
||||